Kiel author Dayan Kodua: “Racism is learned”An interview with Julia Westlake

As of: March 1, 2023 3:52 p.m

How and when do you talk to children about racism and colonialism? The author Dayan Kodua, who was born in Ghana and grew up in Kiel, is also an activist in schools. A conversation.

Ms. Kodua, what feedback do you get from the children?

Dayan Kodua: It’s interesting. Yesterday I had a reading and a workshop in Berlin, and the children from the third and fourth grades asked an incredible number of questions about racism: How does racism arise? Why does this even exist? What is discrimination? It was very interesting to exchange ideas with the children and many children thought it was really bad. They were sad that people were excluded because of how they looked. It was very clear to me then that racism, discrimination and ignorant behavior come from adults, that it is instilled because many children are not yet socialized in such a way that they think: You are bad because you are dark or because you wear a headscarf .

This means that children are smarter than us adults.

Kodua: I have to admit honestly, I think the children are smarter. We also talked about slavery, and many children were so shocked that people existed, or perhaps still exist, who have to do things they don’t want to do. I notice that the children are really smarter and more open than many adults.

These are all difficult topics. Telling a seven or eight-year-old child that people are being treated really badly, you have to do it in a certain way – or do you come with all the cruelty?

Kodua: No. Especially when it comes to this topic, the children were a little older, third and fourth grade. But nonetheless, I talk to them about it in a very empathetic way. I think that if a child is socialized in such a way that they know about racism and practice it, then I also think that the child should also be able to receive it, that it is not possible to hurt anyone could. That’s why you can’t generalize like that. I’m always feeling my way around: Are they ready? Have you ever heard of it or not? I think many children also talk about discrimination and racism at home. Accordingly – at least in these classes – the children were incredibly open.

It is also important to them to make role models visible, especially for children, for people of color, to show them: Others look just like me and lead similar lives. You come from Ghana yourself and came to Germany when you were ten – did you lack identification figures as a child?

Kodua: I would definitely say yes. I grew up in Kiel and in my time I simply didn’t see black people, be it on the radio or on TV. Accordingly, I looked for my role models in the USA or had African role models. These were people I found interesting. It wasn’t until much later, when I studied acting in the States, that I actually experienced that many role models were visible. Nevertheless, we didn’t have these people in Germany.

For me, it’s incredibly important to make role models more visible, especially black role models, because a role model makes me feel like I can achieve what I dream of. A role model walked the path that I might want to take.

When people of color are reported on, it doesn’t always work. Stereotypes are still used far too often, right?

Kodua: Yes, you are right. My job is to simply focus on the positive aspects and make them more visible. I know the clichés, but if I focus on them, then I believe that no development can be made at all. I would also like my children to have things a little easier than me one day. This is only possible if I am able to change things so positively that I am happy and can make other people happy too.

If you write children’s books about racism, then it might not be so easy not to use clichés yourself, right?

Kodua: I have to say that my children’s books don’t deal with the topic of racism at all, but rather universal topics. The first book is about gratitude, perseverance, and appreciation. The second book is about farewell, about new beginnings. The topic of racism is already so difficult, and I wouldn’t be able to have a positive impact on anyone if I talked about it all the time. This is only an issue for me when people ask me, when people are willing to talk about it. Otherwise, I try to process everyday moments in children’s books. For example in the book that has just been published: “If my hair could talk”. It’s about a topic that I know, that my children know and that many other people, both black and non-black, know: when people simply grab your hair without being asked. This doesn’t deal with the topic of racism, but it’s still a topic that annoys us sometimes. These are the topics that interest me. I think it’s important to enter into dialogue – empathetic dialogue without pointing fingers. That is not my intention.

The interview was conducted by Julia Westlake.

https://www.ndr.de/kultur/buch/Kieler-Autorin-Dayan-Kodua-Rassismus-ist-anerzogen,kodua126.html